I find that much of the confusion about protein is a result of confusing protein with amino acids. Proteins are structures made out of amino acids. If we eat a protein, the body quickly breaks it down into amino acids, which can then be assembled into a vast array of tissues in the body. In short, the only real use of dietary protein is that it supplies amino acids. The body has to have a very strict serving of amino acids to make what it wants to make. As a rule, meat supplies amino acids in the exact ratios needed by the human body...which shouldn't surprise us. We are a lot more similar to a cow than we are to a cabbage. We should also note "protein leverage" (which I would label as amino acid leverage). Raubenheimer and Simpson in Australia studied a big array of animals and published evidence that animals eat until they get enough amino acids to make the tissues their bodies need to make. You can check the very recent twitters from Dr. Ted Naiman for some evidence that R and S have been confirmed by the big HAVA database which uses AI to dissect macronutrient composition of what people are actually eating.
Don, any opinion on the value of EAA's (Essential Amino Acids)? They're pitched as whole-food protein equivalents/substitutes because they are formulated with the same proportions of specific amino acids. True or not?
You should understand I am an amateur, who has spent some time trying to figure out a lot of confusing things the experts say. IMHO, the essential amino acids are amino acids which cannot be made from any collection of other amino acids. There are around 20 amino acids. If one of them that your body needs to make a tissue is not provided by one's diet, and there is no combination of the 19 which are available will make the particular amino acid you need, then we call that one an Essential Amino Acid. From the standpoint of calorie efficiency, the less food we have to eat in order to supply all of the Essential Amino Acids, the better. The simple way to do that is with lean meat or with zero fat greek yogurt. The milk from which we make yogurt is designed to give a baby cow all the amino acids it needs in the right proportions. Meat from a lean cow is an efficient way to supply a human with all of the amino acids it needs. But a cow in a feedlot which is stuffed with seed oils in order to make it fat is NOT efficient in that we will need to eat a lot of fat calories in order to get the amino acids. That is why we are seeing packages of ground beef which are up to 90 percent lean...it's about finding a low calorie way to deliver all of the amino acids. What about plant sources of amino acids? Every amino acid can be found in some plant, somewhere. So a clever blender of food can figure out a way to get a complete mix of foods to supply all of the amino acids. But the mix will have more calories, because there will be a lot of amino acids included which will not match up exactly with what our body needs to make skin, or muscle, or lungs. Those surplus amino acids will be burned for energy or stored as fat. I'm not saying that can't work...it's just that one starts with some excess calories which have to either be turned into fat or burned.
Most of the expert commentary focuses on muscle in healthy people. Dr. Jess Gwin works for the US Army. She has studied the needs of soldiers who don't have a handy supermarket with snacks available 24/7. Of note in her research is the response of the whole body...not just muscle. She has found that if the body has more amino acids available than are needed to restore muscle, the body will also renew other organs. So there is a conflict between those who think that more renewal is just more opportunity for cancer, and those who think that renewing non-muscle organs is a chance to turn back the aging clock. Over the last 12 months, my endothelial age has gone down...which I see as a definite gain in terms of vascular health. The clinical test is something called an EndoPat. My cardiologist points to maintenance of the electrical system which keeps the contents of the fluid away from the walls of the arteries as well as the health of the artery walls....like a magnet which can either attract or repel with tissues which can be young or old. I remind you I am not an expert. But I suspect that my attention to dietary amino acids has helped.
Don Layman, who has studied proteins for decades, says that plants make the non-essential amino acids, predominantly. It's bacteria that make the essential amino acids. Animals eat bacteria when they are, for example, grazing healthy pastures, and so get the essential amino acids they need. My gloss would be that plants CAN be used to get the EAAs, but one will likely have to either resort to chemistry or eating more calories. Layman puts the blame for our current health debacle on too many calories. We can fill up on cereal grains, but we will be deficient in the essential amino acids unless we eat too much. Of course, if we open the lens wider, we may have trouble feeding 8 billion people with animals grazing healthy grass.
Any idea why the Clean Label Project doesn’t actually name the protein powders they found to have metals? Maybe I missed it, but last time I checked their site and cited papers, they had nothing. They did name a couple that they promote as being “clean” and holding their certification.
The whole thing seems scammy to me.
I take a decent amount of Orgain power and pre-made drinks (from Costco, always a good deal), and would love to know if I’m ingesting heavy metals.
My understanding is vegan proteins need to be a mix of certain types of protein sources to make them complete proteins. I can’t remember which combos make a complete protein. I remember reading about “the vegan’s whey” which is pea protein + some other vegan protein source I can’t remember. Does this ring a bell?
Edit: I found it - it’s rice protein. If you’re looking for a vegan protein source, it should have pea and rice protein to be a complete protein.
I really enjoyed the Protein Myths double feature. May I suggest a future General Food myths. There are all sorts of POV on what is healthy and what isn’t. A good example that I debate with my wife often is honey. Is honey good for you? Some say yes, some say no. Is it better than regular table sugar…probably yes. But not definitive. If you a insulin resistant and are working on your metabolic flexibility is it something you should have as part of your diet, or avoid? Tons of other foods out there that strike up interesting debates. I would love to get your and the 2% crowd to discuss and weigh in.
I find that much of the confusion about protein is a result of confusing protein with amino acids. Proteins are structures made out of amino acids. If we eat a protein, the body quickly breaks it down into amino acids, which can then be assembled into a vast array of tissues in the body. In short, the only real use of dietary protein is that it supplies amino acids. The body has to have a very strict serving of amino acids to make what it wants to make. As a rule, meat supplies amino acids in the exact ratios needed by the human body...which shouldn't surprise us. We are a lot more similar to a cow than we are to a cabbage. We should also note "protein leverage" (which I would label as amino acid leverage). Raubenheimer and Simpson in Australia studied a big array of animals and published evidence that animals eat until they get enough amino acids to make the tissues their bodies need to make. You can check the very recent twitters from Dr. Ted Naiman for some evidence that R and S have been confirmed by the big HAVA database which uses AI to dissect macronutrient composition of what people are actually eating.
Don Stewart
Don, any opinion on the value of EAA's (Essential Amino Acids)? They're pitched as whole-food protein equivalents/substitutes because they are formulated with the same proportions of specific amino acids. True or not?
You should understand I am an amateur, who has spent some time trying to figure out a lot of confusing things the experts say. IMHO, the essential amino acids are amino acids which cannot be made from any collection of other amino acids. There are around 20 amino acids. If one of them that your body needs to make a tissue is not provided by one's diet, and there is no combination of the 19 which are available will make the particular amino acid you need, then we call that one an Essential Amino Acid. From the standpoint of calorie efficiency, the less food we have to eat in order to supply all of the Essential Amino Acids, the better. The simple way to do that is with lean meat or with zero fat greek yogurt. The milk from which we make yogurt is designed to give a baby cow all the amino acids it needs in the right proportions. Meat from a lean cow is an efficient way to supply a human with all of the amino acids it needs. But a cow in a feedlot which is stuffed with seed oils in order to make it fat is NOT efficient in that we will need to eat a lot of fat calories in order to get the amino acids. That is why we are seeing packages of ground beef which are up to 90 percent lean...it's about finding a low calorie way to deliver all of the amino acids. What about plant sources of amino acids? Every amino acid can be found in some plant, somewhere. So a clever blender of food can figure out a way to get a complete mix of foods to supply all of the amino acids. But the mix will have more calories, because there will be a lot of amino acids included which will not match up exactly with what our body needs to make skin, or muscle, or lungs. Those surplus amino acids will be burned for energy or stored as fat. I'm not saying that can't work...it's just that one starts with some excess calories which have to either be turned into fat or burned.
Another way of looking at the "adequate protein?" arguments:
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/8/2457
Most of the expert commentary focuses on muscle in healthy people. Dr. Jess Gwin works for the US Army. She has studied the needs of soldiers who don't have a handy supermarket with snacks available 24/7. Of note in her research is the response of the whole body...not just muscle. She has found that if the body has more amino acids available than are needed to restore muscle, the body will also renew other organs. So there is a conflict between those who think that more renewal is just more opportunity for cancer, and those who think that renewing non-muscle organs is a chance to turn back the aging clock. Over the last 12 months, my endothelial age has gone down...which I see as a definite gain in terms of vascular health. The clinical test is something called an EndoPat. My cardiologist points to maintenance of the electrical system which keeps the contents of the fluid away from the walls of the arteries as well as the health of the artery walls....like a magnet which can either attract or repel with tissues which can be young or old. I remind you I am not an expert. But I suspect that my attention to dietary amino acids has helped.
Don Stewart
Don Layman, who has studied proteins for decades, says that plants make the non-essential amino acids, predominantly. It's bacteria that make the essential amino acids. Animals eat bacteria when they are, for example, grazing healthy pastures, and so get the essential amino acids they need. My gloss would be that plants CAN be used to get the EAAs, but one will likely have to either resort to chemistry or eating more calories. Layman puts the blame for our current health debacle on too many calories. We can fill up on cereal grains, but we will be deficient in the essential amino acids unless we eat too much. Of course, if we open the lens wider, we may have trouble feeding 8 billion people with animals grazing healthy grass.
So good my friend.
Any idea why the Clean Label Project doesn’t actually name the protein powders they found to have metals? Maybe I missed it, but last time I checked their site and cited papers, they had nothing. They did name a couple that they promote as being “clean” and holding their certification.
The whole thing seems scammy to me.
I take a decent amount of Orgain power and pre-made drinks (from Costco, always a good deal), and would love to know if I’m ingesting heavy metals.
I don’t think they are NSF-certified, meaning third party tested
I also drink orgain protien powder shakes. I get whey protien tho, not pea protien.
Great information, thank you. I will say I’ve found protein timing very helpful for the anabolic resistance of menopause.
My understanding is vegan proteins need to be a mix of certain types of protein sources to make them complete proteins. I can’t remember which combos make a complete protein. I remember reading about “the vegan’s whey” which is pea protein + some other vegan protein source I can’t remember. Does this ring a bell?
Edit: I found it - it’s rice protein. If you’re looking for a vegan protein source, it should have pea and rice protein to be a complete protein.
I really enjoyed the Protein Myths double feature. May I suggest a future General Food myths. There are all sorts of POV on what is healthy and what isn’t. A good example that I debate with my wife often is honey. Is honey good for you? Some say yes, some say no. Is it better than regular table sugar…probably yes. But not definitive. If you a insulin resistant and are working on your metabolic flexibility is it something you should have as part of your diet, or avoid? Tons of other foods out there that strike up interesting debates. I would love to get your and the 2% crowd to discuss and weigh in.