17 Years of Wisdom On The Good Life

Brett McKay explains what he's learned covering health and living better.

The founders of Dying Breed and Art of Manliness: Brett and Kate McKay

Post Summary

• We’re speaking with Brett McKay, founder of the Art of Manliness and Dying Breed.

• Brett has spent the last 17 years in the trenches writing and reporting about how to live a richer, more meaningful life by blending timeless wisdom and practical advice.

• We asked him 26 questions on topics like health and fitness, parenting, testosterone, marriage, books, faith, and more.

• P.S., Brett also ran a similar interview with me at Dying Breed. Read it here.

Housekeeping

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• We’re going LIVE with

  Caroline Chambers
  from What To Cook When You Don’t Feel Like Cooking on Tuesday at 11:30 PST. Tune in on the Substack app or your desktop.

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Audio/podcast version

• Listen on your preferred player here.

The post

Today we’re running a Q&A with Brett McKay, the founder of the Art of Manliness and a new (excellent) Substack, Dying Breed. Check out Dying Breed here.

Brett founded Art of Manliness in 2008 and built it into the largest independent men’s interest magazine online with his wife, Kate.

Dying Breed, as you’ll soon learn, is a project that allows Brett and Kate to dive deeper into the topics that fascinate them most.

Brett is inquisitive and wise, and he’s talked to some of the most interesting people on the planet on his podcast. I asked him questions relevant to the Two Percent community.

We covered:

• Why Brett hates video.

• The new Dying Breed project.

• The best parenting advice Brett has heard.

• How Brett stays healthy despite a hectic work and parenting schedule.

• Advice for working with your spouse.

• Dumb health trends.

• Brett’s two favorite exercises.

• What Brett learned getting really strong.

• The difference between health and performance.

• Testosterone replacement therapy.

• Brett’s favorite books.

• The benefits of being involved in church.

• And much more …

Let’s roll …

Michael: First off, why aren’t we doing this on video?

Brett: Honestly, I just don't like how video holds you hostage. You have to sit there and stare at the screen and move at its pace. I'm busy—I want to scan text, skim quickly, and move on.

I used to be really active on YouTube and we built our channel to 1.4 million subscribers. We got the golden play button—if you want to impress 11-year-olds and get the respect to make them listen to you, get the golden play button.

But we stopped the channel. I didn’t enjoy it. It was really time and cost-intensive. I also don't like the performative aspect of video. I feel like video has become very performative, where the focus is on the sizzle instead of the steak. That’s hurting our attention spans.

Your podcast is super popular. When I was on your podcast, we didn’t use video when we recorded.

Brett: I feel like I have a better conversation with the person when they're not on the screen.

Maybe the guest is more at ease because they don’t have to worry about their background and how they look. And for me, I can refer to my notes and not worry about the guest thinking I’m ignoring them or disinterested.

Even NPR's Terry Gross (host of Fresh Air) avoids in-person interviews for that reason—she can focus on notes without distractions.

You and your wife, Kate, built Art of Manliness into a media juggernaut. Why did you start Dying Breed on Substack?

Brett: Kate I missed going deep into philosophical and historical topics. We both love doing heavy research and really thinking things through.

Art of Manliness evolved toward practical, shorter-form content—fitness, style, productivity—which we love. Still, some of the richer, more thought-provoking topics we wanted to cover didn’t fit there.

Dying Breed is our chance to explore deeper ideas for a smaller, dedicated audience. We dive into areas we're passionate about—like bio-rhythms, Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s theology, and media ecology. Stuff that wouldn't resonate broadly but appeals to those who love depth.

We chose Substack because we’d had to turn off commenting on Art of Manliness because of trolls. With Substack, there's a paywall on comments, and that really raises the quality of discussion.

So Art of Manliness is sort of like the Bachelor’s degree and Dying Breed is the Ph.D. …

Brett: Yeah, that’s a good way to explain it.

You’ve talked to a ton of parenting experts on podcasts. What's your best parenting advice?

Brett: Parent like a video game. In video games, if you mess up you just start from the beginning—it’s not a big deal. So if your kid makes a mistake, treat it like restarting a game—tell them not to do that again and move on. No big deal.

Also, something I appreciate more and more is that kids are their own people. You can guide them, create a supportive environment, but you can't control their personalities or outcomes. You see families where all the kids are parented the same way, but they all end up different. Why’s that? Because people are different.

So do your best, love them, and let them be themselves.

How do you balance parenting with health?

Brett: Having a home gym or a way to train at home definitely balances being a parent and managing your health a lot easier. It just makes exercise a lot more flexible, and flexibility is what you need as a parent.

You run Art of Manliness and Dying Breed with your spouse. I haven’t seen either of you featured in any Dateline murder mysteries. How do you pull it off?

Brett: We have very compatible personalities and get along really well. That's not to say we don't argue. And it's always hard to get criticism about your work from your significant other. We occasionally get angry at each other.

But we always shake it off quickly and move on. I think people have this idea that you gotta be copacetic and just loving and everything's great all the time. No, we both have our different views on things and oftentimes think things should be done differently. So we hash it out and move on.

What's the most important thing you've learned from your wife?

Brett: To pay attention to details and not stress when overwhelmed. I’m more of a big picture guy and I tend to get overwhelmed when things get hectic. She's detail-oriented and calm. I've learned to appreciate the details more and relax a bit.

You've experimented extensively with health trends. What's something you've changed your mind about?

Brett: Low-carb diets. I got into low-carb in early days. And then I learned, wait, there's nothing magic about low carb. You just eat fewer calories typically when you're on low carb. But you can do that with any diet. My diet is much more balanced now.

What’s the dumbest health trend you’ve noticed recently?

Brett: Blue-light-blocking glasses. They're useless—the research doesn't support significant circadian disruption from blue light.

If you could do one exercise for the rest of your life, what would it be and why?

Brett: Deadlifting and rucking. Deadlift because it hits so many muscle groups and has some practical carryover to everyday life. Also I just enjoy it.

Rucking for all the reasons you've been boosting rucking. Great cardio workout, but easier on the joints than running. Great for muscles and bone health. Also, I just enjoy it.

Same question, but applied to food: If you could eat only one meal for the rest of your life …

Brett: If I were to pick one meal for health and taste, I'd pick a cheeseburger made with 93 percent lean ground beef. Pretzel bun. Loaded with lots of veggies like lettuce, tomato, onion. I'd even put sauerkraut. Has a solid mix of carbs, fat, and protein and lots of micronutrients. Best of all, tastes awesome.

You used to powerlift. Did you notice any downsides to your powerlifting, and what did those tell you about fitness?

Brett: I really enjoyed powerlifting, but it definitely beat me up. When I started getting really heavy, I started getting tendonitis in different parts of my body from overuse. That wasn't fun.

Also, there's a point of diminishing returns when you chase numbers in powerlifting. To get the adaptation, you need to lift more and more weight, and the amount of stress you need to accumulate gets higher and higher.

It might take a year of really heavy training to go up just 10 pounds on your deadlift max. That can really beat you down.

I learned there's training for health and training for sport. When I first started I was getting generally strong in a healthy way. Then I had to start pushing my body pretty hard, and I started trading health for performance.

How do you define fitness?

Brett: Fitness to me means you have the physical ability to handle whatever physical tasks required to navigate life while in our mortal journey. So it's pretty basic for me.

Can I walk long distances? Can I walk up stairs without getting winded? Can I get up from the ground? Can I pick up and carry moderately heavy things without injuring myself? My goal is to be able to do these things for as long as I can.

Favorite quote of all time and why?

Brett: That's a tough one because I think my favorite quotes change depending on where I'm at in life.

Right now, one that I've been thinking about a lot lately comes from Jack London in his forward to his book The Cruise of the Snark. It's about his journey sailing across the South Pacific with his wife and a small crew:

"Why not start at once? We’d never be younger, any of us.”

I think that's been landing with me more and more as I go deeper and deeper into middle age. You start thinking about how little time left you have with your kids before they leave the house or how much time before you're 70 and not as spry as when you're 40. So why wait to do some of those things you've been thinking about doing? You and your family aren't getting any younger.

What's your take on testosterone replacement therapy?

Brett: I think thanks to marketing and tele-health, a lot of guys, particularly younger guys, are getting a bit too cavalier with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). If your testosterone levels are low and you have symptoms of low testosterone, try lifestyle changes before you start thinking about TRT.

Exercise, lose weight, improve your sleep, chill out. If, after a few months, you're still feeling the symptoms of low T, talk to a reputable doctor about hormone replacement therapy. Just know that it comes with side effects, and it's something you'll be reliant on for the rest of your life. Like everything in life, there are tradeoffs. Make sure you know what they are. There's no free lunch!

You write a lot about practical skills. What's the most important skill for people?

Brett: The skill to learn new skills—the ability to adapt, think critically, and learn quickly. Life always throws unexpected challenges; learning how to handle new problems on the fly is invaluable.

On a scale of one to ten, what degree of prepper are you? One is you don’t prep at all, ten is you have an offsite bomb shelter filled with a decade’s worth of supplies.

Brett: Somewhere in the middle. I have a 72-hour bug-out bag with food, a water filter, paracord, duct tape, and basics for survival. We also have about three months of food storage—mostly MREs and freeze-dried food—and emergency water barrels.

We’ll call it a six. What's your favorite podcast episode you've recorded?

Brett: One of my favorite books of all time is The Road by Cormac McCarthy. I did an episode with this American literature professor who specializes in Cormac McCarthy. We did it about the road and we got to talk about it. We were talking about the scene where the dad is dying (spoiler alert) and he tells his son, “you're the best guy.” I was reading the scene and I just started bawling my eyes out, because I say that to my son all the time.

Favorite book from the past year?

Brett: Moby Dick. I'm on this kick where I'm rereading books that are read in high school and seeing how I feel about them now. Now that I’m 42, I appreciate them differently. But my all-time favorite, read in the last decade, is easily "Lonesome Dove" by Larry McMurtry.

Who’s a historical figure you admire?

Brett: Teddy Roosevelt, hands down. His blend of intellect, adventure, and writing inspires a lot of what we do. He’s basically the patron saint of Art of Manliness and The Strenuous Life.

You're deeply involved in your church community. How has that shaped your outlook?

Brett: I went on a mission to Tijuana when I was 19. I’d start the day teaching people in extremely poor parts of town that had no running water, then end it teaching people who lived in luxury mansions.

So I learned how to interact with different people, and that a lot of people have really hard stuff going on. The first time you encounter people with marital problems, drug addiction problems, alcohol problems … it's tough. It's really hard. I didn’t know if I could do too much to help them, but I tried to do what I could, just giving them an encouraging word or whatever.

I'm still very involved in church now; it's a critical part of our community life, even though community itself can be elusive.

What’s the hardest part of building real community?

Brett: It's tough because modern life is so fragmented. Our schedules rarely align anymore, which makes sustained community difficult. People want easy solutions, but there are none. Building community requires effort, patience, and accepting that it won’t be perfect.

Lastly, desert island—what three albums are you taking?

Brett: "Direct Hits" by The Killers, "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis, and something by Mozart. Can't go wrong with those.

Have fun, don’t die, can’t go wrong with those,

Michael